Curse

Stemnin · Sep 28, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Ive played around 800 hours of monk in pve.. I can't honestly say that I haven't let a few ppl die because they were just plain (insert rude nasty comment here).

A R/E that was running ahead of the tank, going melee with an enemy, then uses his bow..

crimsonfilms · Sep 28, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

The attitude that the last 3 posters have gives monks a bad rep. You're implying you purposely let your teammates die, even though you could have kept them alive without any cost to the mission/quest or team. And that= bad monk. If you can, without risking the team or mission/quest -whatever, save your teammates.

You speak positively of being arrogant? Arrogance is a negative emotion. There is no way being arrogant can help you or your team.

Yes - I let people actually die in game. I am no welcome mat for people to step on. Do your job and I will do mine just fine.
If you suck and have the balls to blame me then why should I waste my time and energy on you - there are 6 others doing their job and seems to be staying alive just fine.

I really don't care about 'reputation'. Reputation ain't gonna help me play the game better.

Omega X · Sep 28, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

yup yup.... again this is why the Hench monks are better than half of you...

Tai wont be a bitch and not heal someone because she thinks she is some goddess and everyone else is a noob...

LMAO!

Then you don't have enough field time with Tai. I'll take Danika over Tai any day of the week.

But anyway, its fine that players take the henches. Less crap for human monks to deal with.

beta man · Sep 28, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

i do purposely let those players who think they are invincible die. when they got DP, they will learn to stay back, i guess this is a way to manage ur team as well.

one particular class i notice, is elementalist, they put on "whatever" resistance and go up front thinking they are ok......

Legendary Shiz · Sep 28, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Ele's are a pain to heal, but letting a nuker die is by far one of the dumbest things you can do as a monk as they are a VERY large part of the damage being delt.

After you keep them up and the group dies, you let them know that they are eles and not wars. I love when I'll tell them to let the tank do the tanking, and they give me something "Shut up noob, I need to be close to them to nuke." Yes, this can be true. However you don't have to be taking 100% of the damage to be close. Let the tank take the damage and when they're busy beating on him run up and nuke away.

Personally though, my least favorite thing about PvE monking is 1% of the people know how to kite. There's basically zero damage mitigation in pve, and that makes monking so frustrating.

Jetdoc · Sep 28, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

I've learned a little trick in this regard...

Pretype in your text box "My Energy is 0 of 45."

Whenever you find a warrior, assassin or caster overextend, simply click on your text box and scroll up to that messgae, no matter what your current energy level is.

Those words put absolute FEAR into all other classes, since they realize at that point they aren't gonna get healed. That makes them readjust their position to make sure that they aren't in harm's way, and within the range of the monk. It's a capitalistic "heal me first" approach that will make them better players through greed. Works like a charm, without causing unnecessary deaths (and also works as a nice scapegoat if they do die, as they can't blame the monk).

Effendi Westland · Sep 28, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

What saddens me more is that there are lots of player out there who think that they need abusive monks on their teams.... henchie monks do the job just as well... okay so Lina tanks, but you can at least count on that.

If you want to call the shots in a party, form one, don't join a party and take it over. I'm usually playing with 3-4 mates and if you threaten to leave my party as a monk, expect to have 4 people drop from the mission and loading up the hench monks (as I probably told them to do in the 1st place).

Also when I'm warrior I'm doing all my best to run ahead of the group to get em all out of my freaking aggro bubble. Usually only works when the monks are otherwise distracted, why do you guys insist on following the tank only just outside of his aggro bubble? I know you want to heal me as soon as I take damage, but I honestly handle the first punches thrown at me and it only gets better when watch yourself has charged, so you got 5-10 secs to respond. And when I do go in for aggro, don't pre-enchant me, if I wanted 1xx dmg from shatter enchant I would've brought mending.

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 28, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

When I use my monk, I can either be

1. Calm and commending

Usually when I get a team that works with me without a line typed. I end up commending them after bursts of action to raise morale. This usually gives us the best results

2. The General

I turn into the Evil Drill Sarge from Full Metal Jacket when the team makes too many schoolboy errors or if ONE person on the team does stupid things (usually an assassin). I hate doing it as I know people will think I'm grumpy, but it HAS to be done. I am nice enough to point out WHAT they are doing what, why and what they SHOULD be doing. I was happy to notice 1 assassin telling his buddy off for doing stupid things after he learned how to do it right, like this.

Being a monk is an.........experience

Crowlley · Sep 28, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I concur that there are a lot of monks who are, to be frank, rubbish. However there are also lots of [every other class] who are rubbish.

The problem is, as has been said so many times before, that if a decent or even average monk lets someone die (not purposefully 'I don't like them so i wont heal them' but I can't keep healing this useless player and let the others die) its immediately seen as the monk's fault. It is also the monk's fault if we manage to save said useless player and as a result other die from unexpected aggro from said player. Its a lose-lose situation, which isn't aided by the fact that dead useless player is spamming "rez me stupid monk, I mean its not like any one else needs healing for the 6-8 seconds you are rezzing me, if you manage to cast the spell without interrupts and now have 0 energy (if its rebirth)" either, you can insert random spelling mistakes and exclamation marks yourself.

Also, it seems that no one else bothers telling the warriors not to spam frenzy/healing sig or the eles to move out of the maelstrom. So it's up to us monks: the ones who have to work around such inconveniences to make our jobs easier.

But then again I don't really think the majority of the people who are actually willing to discuss this are the bad players dragging the others down.

Minus Sign · Sep 28, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Wrong. Logically it has to be better to attempt to keep your team alive rather than allow some of them to die when they could have been saved. That's common sense. This is no War or Combat zone. It's just playing a little game among (hopefully) friends.

There's our miscommunication. You're talking about the wrong game type Trvth Jvstice. We're talking about PuGs here; not playing THK through hundreds of times with guildies as they push their character into the fire islands. We're not talking about expierienced groups where one person might make a mistake somewhere, but recovers. Teams where you can trust the majority of your members to do their job and help you do yours (since you're helping them do theirs).

And while this isn't a war or combat zone, the very nature of Guild Wars is combat. It's game physics revolve around rewarding groups of players for killing things. Would you prefer I called it a game based on murder?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I'm a professional firefighter/EMT, and I work in a hospital ER. I've made mass casualty incidents. Don't compare them to a game ok? thx.

No disrespect intended but anyone can say they are anything in these forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

The point is, when your team is in a pitched battle, and for example, an ele is getting hammered on by carvers, heal him then ask him to stay out of melee range if he doesn't still keep the team alive and if it's in your ability also keep the ele alive. Don't do as Minus Sign would and let the ele die even if he ccould have saved him.

And the other shoe drops. In a pitched battle any monk will tell you that "I don't have time to chatter in text." That's why people use vent in PvP; good players can't type and cast effectivly and they know it.

Any idiot can heal a party member when the team is at near full health. It's at crunch time that the very mindset you say is "wrong" comes into play. Its then that the better monks--with their team beside them--prevail.

EDIT: One thing keeps nagging me about your OP. You were running a curse necro in THK. You've monked it hundreds of times. You know there's a strong possibility of a split at the gates. And you know--being a monk who runs THK hundreds of times--that it can be a bitch to keep the party up when they split. But you're relying on the monk to heal your damage...and it sounds like you're relying on him to heal all of it. As a Castor curse necro and an expierenced monk, you know that you can keep the damage to a minimum and coutner the lion's share of it if you stay up top, spam SS and self heal when able. hell, my mesmer AND my necro have soloed the east gate during the early Giant offensives staying up there. Also, based on your story it sounds like you were KDed, gained mob agro...stood up and started spamming spells.

My questions: Where was your self heal and why didn't you kite?

EDIT2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Overall, I'm not in this game to teach people a lesson. Either they "get it" or they don't, not that it matters because the chance that I'll ever play with them again is too miniscule to be statistically relevant. Besides, if I really want something done right, I won't pug to begin with. GG.

-Jessyi

Just read this and had a Ferris Bueller flashback: Jessyi you’re my hero.

saphir · Sep 28, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

In a pitched battle any monk will tell you that "I don't have time to chatter in text." That's why people use vent in PvP; good players can't type and cast effectivly and they know it.

Oh so very true, there is often simply no time to type in the heat of a battle. Even if I get sometimes get out a quick "get out of mael" or "ranger, plz tank" (often horribly mispelled), the players concerned are not paying attention to the chat window. They are busy themselves casting their spells, clicking or tabbing through the enemy and interrupters are focused watching and timing enemy skills. Necros and eles are often spamming damage as quickly as they can and it's not until after it's too late that they may even notice your chat text among the item drop, skill calls, energy call messages.

Even good players may sometimes forget, or may not notice they are taking spike damage.
So as a monk you can help remind them "yes, you ARE dying and can very well die if you keep your present position"

The thing about keeping a player all healed up all the time is that they think everything is fine because <i>they</i> are still alive after all, so there must not be a problem. The other players generally aren't too aware of how much damage the rest of the party may be taking (especially when it's healed quickly). And sometimes players don't get that if you're down to 11 of x energy that may not be a good thing. Many only seem understand "My Energy is 0 of XX" and of course by then it's often too late.

I just remember my fire ele days on my first character before I had ever created a monk. I had no idea what they were doing, just that the party hp bars would bounce up and down but as long as no one was dead we were all good. I just relied on my trusty troll ungent and dodge =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jet doc

I've learned a little trick in this regard...

Pretype in your text box "My Energy is 0 of 45."

lol, that's a great trick I should start using instead of focus swapping to ping a lower energy level. I've noticed that about 50% of pug players still don't listen or do anything differently until the heals actually stop coming though

Rera · Sep 28, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

A person with 60% DP works very well with prot spirit. A boon RoF becomes Infuse Health.

Regardless of how much some of you guys wish it were otherwise, monks have the party by the balls most of the time. Unless you came into the mission prepared for no monk support, the monks decide who gets to play the game, and who spends their time facedown on the ground. This is a fact. It might not be fair, but that's how it is. If the monk wants to be a control freak, there's little you can do about it except leave.

I'm actually on my warrior most of the time, and as anyone who has read the warrior forum knows, I trust my monks. I build around damage, not tanking, so if my monk doesn't watch me, I'm going down hard and fast. And that's the way I like it - I do damage and hold aggro, and my monks keep me up. I don't ping my health the moment I take damage, and I don't ask for heals. I trust that my monk knows healing better than I do, so I just stick to doing my job and trust her to do hers. I ask my monks to ping their energy periodically to make sure they're comfortable. I scrape monsters off of them when they're under pressure. They take care of me, I take care of them, and everyone goes home happy.

When I monk, I reverse the situation. I expect people to trust me. I expect them to take care of me. I expect, if not competence, then at least the ability to follow directions and realize the significance of pings, whether it's a skill ping, an energy ping, or a map ping. In return, I will do my damned best to keep you alive against whatever kind of crazy shit we get into. I take care of you, you take care of me, everybody goes home happy.

But when people let me down, I stop taking care of them. When they start doing stupid ****, wasting my energy and reducing the effectiveness of the group, they get warnings. If the stupidity continues, they stop getting heals. You can talk all you want about how it's arrogant or irresponsible, or whatever else, but I have no problems with letting someone die if they're not being useful. A caster standing in a maelstrom isn't getting any spells off, so she's useless, and therefore isn't worth healing. A warrior with a full bar of stances and healing skills barely does any damage and doesn't need my help staying alive.

As a monk you have to recognize who gets the priority heals, who is worth keeping an eye on, who isn't worth the energy, and who is better off dead. Sure, you might be able to heal that leeroy this time, but what if he keeps doing it? Some behaviors put the entire team in danger, and that's just not acceptable. I am for sure going to let you die if you exhibit those behaviors, even if I'm at full energy and nobody else is taking damage. It's not a matter of being arrogant - it's a matter of recognizing that some people are actually worse than an empty party slot.

Zexion · Sep 28, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Usually, when a player tends to do stupid things, I set my mind on not healing him at all. But I have an "anti-death" filter in my brain, so I end up healing him when he is near death:P Works good to teach them "oops, perhaps I should start kiting when my monk tells me so!"

_Zexion

sinican · Sep 28, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

the problem repeatedly present in this thread is that most of you monks still act and feel like your higher and mightier than all other players...

comments about not healing someone because they are doing this or doing that etc etc...

its not your responsibility to play everyone elses roll do your own damn job and heal let people play their profs the way they set them up...

Rangers do well at agroing they have the best defensive stances in the game yet i see alot of you noob monks bitching about them... it is the ranger that is the best at pulling agro it is the tanks that are best at taking the damage from that agro... neither of them do any damn good when you screwy monks try your little healing games on them...

you need to wake the hell up and realise your place in a group... you werent brought on because people wanted you to tell them how to play... you were brought in the group to heal and protect people...

now its no wonder half the damn pug monks ive been in groups with suck... your attitudes explain it all... the healer henchis dont pull this shit and your all just as bad as the next player you want to point fingers at...

we dont need your attitudes we need your heals if you cant play your monk that way then you need to play some other profession...

basically most of you are guilty of treasonous activity giving players the false impression that you are going to heal them when they need it yet you play these damn games... and in which case the henchis are more relyable than you jackasses...

I know some of you play you monk the way you should... and that is to heal and be a benefit to the party... the rest of you are pitifull stop playing your monks immediately you are absolutely NO BENEFIT TO ANY PARTY WITH THIS BULL...

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 28, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

@ Minus Sign When I was allowed to die by the aforementioned evil monk, I was knocked down and was unable to get away. It doesn't take long for a 60 armor nec to die under the giants spike. My point was, the monk had the energy to keep me alive during my one mistake of accidentally aggroing. He even had the time to whisper me while I was knocked down twice trying to get away.

And, to be completely honest 90% of the time the only mission I monk in is THK. I Monked my way through Prophecies and immediately went back to my fav mission -THK. And there my monk remains. I tried monking UW once, with an ally group and hated it.

To me THK has become pretty easy with pugs, since I'm able to warn them of the different problem areas beforehand. Maybe since I'm so familiar with this mission, it has tainted my view of how to monk. I'll try UW again or some of the other extremely difficult monking areas and see if my opinion changes.

Crowlley · Sep 28, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

<snip>
its not your responsibility to play everyone elses roll do your own damn job and heal let people play their profs the way they set them up...
<snip>

Now, monks aren't allowed to tell people to do stuff. But, your allowed to tell monks what to do- heal.

I'm sure I can leave it to someone else to think of a suitably witty retort.

TheSonofDarwin · Sep 28, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I've learned a little trick in this regard...

Pretype in your text box "My Energy is 0 of 45."

Whenever you find a warrior, assassin or caster overextend, simply click on your text box and scroll up to that messgae, no matter what your current energy level is.

You've found warriors, assassins, and mezmer/ele tanks that actually care what your current energy level is? Seriously? Could you PM me their names so I can party with those people, please?

The lack of kiting, as mentioned above, in PvE is what makes healing difficult. It's not hard to heal - it's hard to heal a mesmer with a superior domination rune in enchanters armor who is tanking 3 warriors and has all spellcaster aggro. I feel like I'm a weirdo when I play my caster, get aggro on me (not because of standing infront of the warriors), and run the aggro to a tank or someone better capable of handling the damage. I just want to beat my head off my desk when I'm monking and spellcasters don't even flinch when they have the entire mob surrounding them beating the hell out of them. Seriously, wtf.

Common Sense 101 - The education system needs to move this class from Graduate schools to middle school where it belongs so everyone has the opportunity to learn more about it.

Age · Sep 28, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

There is really no psychology really to Monk it is just a team based PC game if you want to do a real life comparison think of a medic on the battle field.They can't get to everyone in an instant so some my die or end up permanently scarred or decapitated.it is not an easy jop for a medic with bomps and expolions going off.When it come to Monking we face some of those experiences but if we all coordinate with each other it would make al our jops easier not just for Monks and tell each what you are bringing prepareing before a mission is alway better eg. a B/P Ranger sneakes thier pet in which most of the time Monks won't heal the thing Rangers don't know is traps help out Monks a lot more as well as Eles who bring wards and be honest when going into a mission soem ppl ask me about what am I and I tell them active protect with my Mo/W anyway it something to consider although I don't normally do this unless we are coordinating with each other it make the mission go that much more smoother.

Minus Sign · Sep 28, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

@ Minus Sign When I was allowed to die by the aforementioned evil monk, I was knocked down and was unable to get away. It doesn't take long for a 60 armor nec to die under the giants spike. My point was, the monk had the energy to keep me alive during my one mistake of accidentally aggroing. He even had the time to whisper me while I was knocked down twice trying to get away.

Doesn't wash. Any 60 AL character can get out of their agro if they try, kite to the team and break it. The alternative is to run the other way, back the way you came, and let their Ai continue them onward. If you're not getting heals, you know something is wrong. We've all expierenced KD in THK here Trvth Jvstice; your plight falls on deaf ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

And, to be completely honest 90% of the time the only mission I monk in is THK. I Monked my way through Prophecies and immediately went back to my fav mission -THK. And there my monk remains. I tried monking UW once, with an ally group and hated it.

You hate monking other missions/areas, huh? I wonder why...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

To me THK has become pretty easy with pugs, since I'm able to warn them of the different problem areas beforehand. Maybe since I'm so familiar with this mission, it has tainted my view of how to monk. I'll try UW again or some of the other extremely difficult monking areas and see if my opinion changes.

Not probably. I have no doubt that you've gimped yourself as a flexible monk by only monking one mission 90% of the time across 2 seperate chapters. That you come here and bash other players--speaking AS a monk--while they pound their way through one mission after another shows just how much more you have to learn. Sadly, I have no more time to devote to your instruction. GG in GW and life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by me...many many many times...

You can't heal stupid so don't try.

LagunaCid · Sep 28, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Telling the second monk "stop ***ing using symbol of wrath and retribution and spamming heal party" didnt work. So guess who had to heal all alone, including the frenzy warrior? >:[